[TF-AIDN] Final Code Point Repertoire Proposal for LGR

Sarmad Hussain sarmad.hussain at icann.org
Mon Oct 27 11:38:36 CET 2014


Dear Ahmed, All,

 

Thank you for the inputs.  

 

I am attaching another view of the code point repertoire, which gives all the characters which are excluded in addition to those which are included.   However, to see the reasons why various characters are included, you would need to see the file circulated by Ahmed.

 

Kindly review the code point repertoire.  Please make sure that exclusions are correct.  Please also verify that the inclusions are correct.

 

As proposed, we should release it for public comment. Would it be OK to take another two weeks to review it and share any comments on email, and release the final version on 9th November publicly for further feedback.

 

In the meantime, the working group is continuing its work on the variants based on this repertoire.

 

Regards,
Sarmad

 

 

From: tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org [mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org] On Behalf Of Ahmed Bakhat Masood
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 1:38 AM
To: tf-aidn at meswg.org
Subject: [TF-AIDN] Fw: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 9

 

Dear All, 

Reference trailing mail, final code point document version 0.7, is attached  for final review the group before circulation to other groups. Many  thanks to all for their valuable contribution in finalizing the document. 


Best Regards,

Ahmed Bakht Masood
Deputy Director (ICT/Network), 
Pakistan Telecom Authority, 
Headquarters F-5/1, Islamabad, Pakistan
Phone (O): 0092-51-9225361 
----- Forwarded by Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK on 10/25/2014 01:40 AM ----- 

From:        Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK 
To:        tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org> , 
Date:        09/02/2014 12:09 PM 
Subject:        Fw: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 9 

  _____  



Dear All, 

Reference trailing mail and TF-AIDN conference call, updated code point documents version 0.5 are attached for discussion to finalize the document, by the group. 


Best Regards,

Ahmed Bakht Masood
Deputy Director (ICT/Network), 
Pakistan Telecom Authority, 
Headquarters F-5/1, Islamabad, Pakistan
Phone (O): 0092-51-9225361 



----- Forwarded by Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK on 09/02/2014 12:14 PM ----- 

From:        Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK 
To:        tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org> , 
Date:        08/03/2014 11:16 PM 
Subject:        Re: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 9 

  _____  



Dear All, 

Reference trailing mails regarding finalization of code points for LGR, Updated Code point document w.r.t EGID Scale in MS Word and status of languages in MS Excel, for the discussion of the group as per detail below: 

1.        EGID language scale 1-4                                                                 highlighted as "green" 
2.        EGID language scale 5 and above                                                 highlighted as "Orange" 
3.        Optional or vowel code points in relevant language                          highlighted as "Blue" 
4.        Code point for which information has yet not received by any member         not highlighted or white 

Relevant individuals have also been requested to updated Information regarding their corresponding language. 

 Best Regards,

Ahmed Bakht Masood 
Deputy Director (ICT/Network), 
Pakistan Telecom Authority, 
Headquarters F-5/1, Islamabad, Pakistan
Phone (O): 0092-51-9225361 


[attachment "Languages Status on EGIDS scale.xlsx" deleted by Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK] [attachment "Code Point Level Analysis for EGIDS 0.4.docx" deleted by Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK] 


From:        tf-aidn-request at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-request at meswg.org>  
To:        tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org> , 
Date:        07/15/2014 09:19 PM 
Subject:        TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 9 
Sent by:        tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org>  

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Follow up on call on 1 Jul 14 (Tarik Merghani)
  2. Re: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 (Meikal Mumin)


----- Message from Tarik Merghani < <mailto:tarik at isoc.sd> tarik at isoc.sd> on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 18:47:24 +0300 ----- 


To:

Sarmad Hussain < <mailto:sarmad.hussain at kics.edu.pk> sarmad.hussain at kics.edu.pk>, 'TF-AIDN' < <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org> tf-aidn at meswg.org>


Subject:

Re: [TF-AIDN] Follow up on call on 1 Jul 14


Dear All,

  Sorry to be late in sending this email ... but I just arrived from Abuja ( Nigeria ) ..

Here are the standards created by the Islamic Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization ( ISESCO ) ... with collaboration with UNESCO and with support from Bank Of Jaddah ( Saudi Arabia ) and Yousif Al-Khalifa Center for African Languages ( In University of Africa ) ...
Those standards for Writing African languages in Arabic Script ... those standards depends on some special characters ( for new sounds which is not there in Arabic ) and Special 


Uploaded ( folder 15 July ) you will find two different folders + photocopy :

1) Wolof - Fulfulde - Yoruba - Mandink - Hausa - Susu :- It contains Translations for Al-Akhdari-Book ( which is an Islamic Basic Book - Writen by Abderahaman Al-Akhdari )
   Lanaguges ( Hausa - Yoruba - Fula ( Fulfulde ) - Mandink - Susu - Wolof )
   you can find a file contains the charactor of each language ... but you may need to add languages to your WinWord ( windows ) so as to display those files
   
2) Quran Part 30 :- It contains Part 30 of Quran in each language and at the end of the file you can see list of special characters used
  it is in PDF so all can use them ...
  
  
3) About Uncodes ( 08F4 - 08FD ) A photocopy of page 168 of book (ISESCO Standard signs.jpg)( Writing African Languages using Arabic Characters - writen by Prof Babikir Gadrmary )
  in this page he talk about seven vowel signs standard by ISESCO and those will be standard to use in african languages
  three signs ( five unicode ... as two signs can be used above or bellow the letter ) of these signs are 08F4 - 08F7 - 08F8 - 08F9 - 08FA 
  So I think those signs are very important as they create a sound which is not there in standard Arabic script ( character set )
  For example the word ( you ) In Swahili ( wewe ) is written in Arabic script ( using ISESCO standard ) with double ( 0648 ) but with 
  08F9 under each 0648 ... to produce the sound wewe ... and without those signs the sound will be totally different and ( maybe ) different word
  Look at last page in Swahili.pdf in Swahili folder in Quran part 30

Tarik Merghani
  



about Code 076A :- ( IT has no color and it was not discussed )

It is used in Wolof Lnagauge ( African langauge - one of six Official langauages used in Senegal and other places in Africa )
please see link (  <http://www.omniglot.com/writing/wolof.htm> http://www.omniglot.com/writing/wolof.htm ) 




On 7/1/2014 8:58 PM, Sarmad Hussain wrote: 
Dear All, 
  
Here is relevant info and action items from our call today: 
  
1.       Tarik and Meikal to look at code points 08F4 – 08FD and identify the following (where possible) 
a.       Languages in Africa using these code points (vowel signs) 
b.      Those used, whether they are optional or required by the language (e.g. Kasra vowel sign is optional (not required) in Arabic and Urdu languages) 
2.       Ahmed, Iftikhar and Sarmad to document the no. on EGIDS scale for each code point for further discussion during next call 
3.       Everybody: please read the explanation on EGIDS scale: 
a.       Read through section 5.10 (second half) on page 22 of the latest Overview and Rationale document by IP available at  <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-overview-06jun14-en.pdf> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-overview-06jun14-en.pdf on where they suggest putting the cut off and why 
b.      Introduction to this scale by ethnologue at  <http://www.ethnologue.com/about/language-status> http://www.ethnologue.com/about/language-status 
c.       The work on IP is based on the Procedure to develop LGR for the root zone.  The procedure is available at  <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-lgr-procedure-20mar13-en.pdf> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-lgr-procedure-20mar13-en.pdf.  >From this procedure, if you read C.9 on pg. 43, the conservatism principle suggests that if TF-AIDN wants to suggest a change, IP must be convinced and they should agree;  other option is to proceed with the shorter set for LGR right now and aim to do more detailed homework and try to include extra code points in the next revisions.  This can be done and IP has indicated that there will be no bias next time in case this is done in two steps.  We decided to discuss options after the final analysis of code points in the next call 
4.       Regarding the missing characters reported by Tarik for some languages in Africa, to add these in Unicode TF-AIDN or any other organization would need to develop a proposal for Unicode consortium, e.g. see  <http://www.cle.org.pk/Publication/papers/2006/n3117.pdf> http://www.cle.org.pk/Publication/papers/2006/n3117.pdf.   
5.       Everybody: please finally review the information in the attached document and let us know if there are any additions/changes.  Those who have names in front of the code points, either confirm the language or delete the entry for that code point, and remove your name (and send the revised version to the list. 
  
We will finalize the characters to be included in the LGR in the next call in two weeks. 
  
Regards,
Sarmad 
  



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----- Message from Meikal Mumin < <mailto:meikal.mumin at uni-koeln.de> meikal.mumin at uni-koeln.de> on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 18:23:05 +0200 ----- 


To:

Ahmed Bakhat Masood < <mailto:ahmedbakhat at pta.gov.pk> ahmedbakhat at pta.gov.pk>


cc:

TF-AIDN < <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org> tf-aidn at meswg.org>


Subject:

Re: [TF-AIDN] TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1


This is the principal resource, where languages are listed with their evaluation according to EGDIS: 
 <http://www.ethnologue.com/> http://www.ethnologue.com/  


On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 5:58 PM, Ahmed Bakhat Masood < <mailto:ahmedbakhat at pta.gov.pk> ahmedbakhat at pta.gov.pk> wrote: 
Dear All, 

Reference trailing follow up mail of teleconference dated 01-07-2014. 
I am attaching Code point document w.r.t EGIDS scale, which has been prepared by Dr. Sarmad, Iftikhar and me for the discussion of the group as per detail below: 

1.        EGIDS language scale 1-4                         highlighted as "green" 
2.        EGIDS language scale 5 and above                 highlighted as "Orange" 
3.        Optional code points in relevant language        highlighted as "Blue" 
4.        Code pint need discussion of the group                not highlighted or white 

Almost all the possible languages have been covered which has their relevant EGIDS scale at ethnologue website, however some of the languages like "ANT" were not found in the scale but I remember Meikal was explaining that it is group of some languages, so after discussion with him we can update document w.r.t EGIDS.   

Furthermore most of the code points are falling in 1-4 EGIDS scale due to relevant languages like Arabic, Persian, Urdu, Hausa, Uyghur and Fulfulde however some of the languages are falling in 5, 6a and 6b scale (highlighted as Orange), for which we have to give valid reasons to be counted in the LGR or we have to find some other languages which are using same code point and has better EGIDS scale. So we can discuss all possibilities in the coming conference call. 


Best Regards,

Ahmed Bakht Masood
Deputy Director (ICT/Network), 
Pakistan Telecom Authority, 
Headquarters F-5/1, Islamabad, Pakistan
Phone (O):  <tel:0092-51-9225361> 0092-51-9225361 





From:         <mailto:tf-aidn-request at meswg.org> tf-aidn-request at meswg.org 
To:         <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org> tf-aidn at meswg.org, 
Date:        07/02/2014 07:54 AM 
Subject:        TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 
Sent by:         <mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org> tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org 

  _____  




Send TF-AIDN mailing list submissions to
                 <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org> tf-aidn at meswg.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
                 <mailto:tf-aidn-request at meswg.org> tf-aidn-request at meswg.org

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TF-AIDN digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Follow up on call on 1 Jul 14 (Sarmad Hussain) 


----- Message from "Sarmad Hussain" < <mailto:sarmad.hussain at kics.edu.pk> sarmad.hussain at kics.edu.pk> on Tue, 1 Jul 2014 22:58:03 +0500 ----- 


To:

"'TF-AIDN'" < <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org> tf-aidn at meswg.org>


Subject:

[TF-AIDN] Follow up on call on 1 Jul 14


Dear All, 
  
Here is relevant info and action items from our call today: 
  
1.       Tarik and Meikal to look at code points 08F4 – 08FD and identify the following (where possible) 
a.       Languages in Africa using these code points (vowel signs) 
b.      Those used, whether they are optional or required by the language (e.g. Kasra vowel sign is optional (not required) in Arabic and Urdu languages) 
2.       Ahmed, Iftikhar and Sarmad to document the no. on EGIDS scale for each code point for further discussion during next call 
3.       Everybody: please read the explanation on EGIDS scale: 
a.       Read through section 5.10 (second half) on page 22 of the latest Overview and Rationale document by IP available at  <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-overview-06jun14-en.pdf> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-overview-06jun14-en.pdf on where they suggest putting the cut off and why 
b.      Introduction to this scale by ethnologue at  <http://www.ethnologue.com/about/language-status> http://www.ethnologue.com/about/language-status 
c.       The work on IP is based on the Procedure to develop LGR for the root zone.  The procedure is available at  <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-lgr-procedure-20mar13-en.pdf> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-lgr-procedure-20mar13-en.pdf.  >From this procedure, if you read C.9 on pg. 43, the conservatism principle suggests that if TF-AIDN wants to suggest a change, IP must be convinced and they should agree;  other option is to proceed with the shorter set for LGR right now and aim to do more detailed homework and try to include extra code points in the next revisions.  This can be done and IP has indicated that there will be no bias next time in case this is done in two steps.  We decided to discuss options after the final analysis of code points in the next call 
4.       Regarding the missing characters reported by Tarik for some languages in Africa, to add these in Unicode TF-AIDN or any other organization would need to develop a proposal for Unicode consortium, e.g. see  <http://www.cle.org.pk/Publication/papers/2006/n3117.pdf> http://www.cle.org.pk/Publication/papers/2006/n3117.pdf.   
5.       Everybody: please finally review the information in the attached document and let us know if there are any additions/changes.  Those who have names in front of the code points, either confirm the language or delete the entry for that code point, and remove your name (and send the revised version to the list. 
  
We will finalize the characters to be included in the LGR in the next call in two weeks. 
  
Regards,
Sarmad 
 [attachment "Code Point Level Analysis for LGR 0.2.docx" deleted by Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK] _______________________________________________
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