[TF-AIDN] Confernece Call Recording

Tarik Merghani tarik at isoc.sd
Wed Sep 3 14:42:06 CEST 2014


Dear All,

     I apologize for NOT able to attend the meeting as I am travelling ...

   Tarik Merghani


On 9/3/2014 1:16 PM, Fahd Batayneh wrote:
>
> All,
>
> The recording for yesterday's call can be found on our wiki space 
> online at https://community.icann.org/display/MES/TF-AIDN+Work+Space. 
> I apologize, yet again, for not being able to join the call as I am on 
> travels.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Fahd
>
> *From:*tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org [mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org] 
> *On Behalf Of *Sarmad Hussain
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 02, 2014 8:00 PM
> *To:* tf-aidn at meswg.org
> *Subject:* [TF-AIDN] Conf. Call on 2 Sept 14
>
> Dear All,
>
> Thanks Ahmed for all the work in putting the documents together.
>
> We reviewed the two documents during the call.
>
> 1.There were no comments on the document which lists characters to be 
> included in the LGR proposal, suggesting that we are putting these 
> code points in the LGR proposal.
>
> 2.For the second document with deferred code points, the following 
> comments were made:
>
> a)Saraiki characters should be included as there is sufficient 
> evidence provided for active use of the writing system for this 
> language by Iftikhar -- see his email which lists TV channels, daily 
> newspapers, univ. based graduate programs, etc. published for this 
> language
>
> b)Other characters were discussed which have a value of 5 on the EGIDS 
> scale.  Inam will provide feedback for these characters being used in 
> Pakistan
>
> c)ANT and DPNL characters (in light green) need to be confirmed. 
> Meikal is requested to verify them
>
> d)Should any other code points be included?
>
> 3.Finally, we will be starting a Work Party for doing the variant 
> analysis for the code points shortlisted for the LGR proposal.  Inam 
> had agreed to lead the work.  However, we are seeking volunteers to 
> help in the discussion.  Please let us know if you are interested to 
> participate.
>
> Please share any feedback or comments.
>
> Those on the call, please feel free to add any details not captured in 
> the email.
>
> Regards,
> Sarmad
>
> *From:*tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org> 
> [mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org] *On Behalf Of *Ahmed Bakhat Masood
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 02, 2014 12:09 PM
> *To:* tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org>
> *Subject:* [TF-AIDN] Fw: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 9
>
> Dear All,
>
> Reference trailing mail and TF-AIDN conference call, updated code 
> point documents version 0.5 are attached for discussion to finalize 
> the document, by the group.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> *
> **Ahmed Bakht Masood*
> Deputy Director (ICT/Network),
> Pakistan Telecom Authority,
> Headquarters F-5/1, Islamabad, Pakistan
> Phone (O):0092-51-9225361
>
>
> ----- Forwarded by Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK on 09/02/2014 12:14 
> PM -----
>
> From: Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK
> To: tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org>,
> Date: 08/03/2014 11:16 PM
> Subject: Re: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 9
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> Reference trailing mails regarding finalization of code points for 
> LGR, Updated Code point document w.r.t EGID Scale in MS Word and 
> status of languages in MS Excel, for the discussion of the group as 
> per detail below:
>
> 1.        EGID language scale 1-4                                     
>   highlighted as "green"
> 2.        EGID language scale 5 and above                             
>   highlighted as "Orange"
> 3.        Optional or vowel code points in relevant language           
>                highlighted as "Blue"
> 4.        Code point for which information has yet not received by any 
> member         not highlighted or white
>
> Relevant individuals have also been requested to updated Information 
> regarding their corresponding language.
>
> Best Regards,
> *
> **Ahmed Bakht Masood*
> Deputy Director (ICT/Network),
> Pakistan Telecom Authority,
> Headquarters F-5/1, Islamabad, Pakistan
> Phone (O):0092-51-9225361
>
>
> [attachment "Languages Status on EGIDS scale.xlsx" deleted by Ahmed 
> Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK] [attachment "Code Point Level Analysis for 
> EGIDS 0.4.docx" deleted by Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK]
>
>
> From: tf-aidn-request at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-request at meswg.org>
> To: tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org>,
> Date: 07/15/2014 09:19 PM
> Subject: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 9
> Sent by: tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Send TF-AIDN mailing list submissions to
> tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of TF-AIDN digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Follow up on call on 1 Jul 14 (Tarik Merghani)
>   2. Re: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 (Meikal Mumin)
>
>
> ----- Message from Tarik Merghani<tarik at isoc.sd 
> <mailto:tarik at isoc.sd>> on Tue, 15 Jul2014 18:47:24 +0300 -----
>
> *To:*
>
> 	
>
> Sarmad Hussain<sarmad.hussain at kics.edu.pk 
> <mailto:sarmad.hussain at kics.edu.pk>>, 'TF-AIDN' <tf-aidn at meswg.org 
> <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org>>
>
> *Subject:*
>
> 	
>
> Re: [TF-AIDN] Follow up on call on1 Jul 14
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> Sorry to be late in sending this email ... but I just arrived 
> fromAbuja ( Nigeria) ..
>
> Here are the standards created by the Islamic Educational, Scientific 
> andCultural Organization ( ISESCO ) ... with collaboration with UNESCO 
> andwith support from Bank Of Jaddah ( Saudi Arabia ) and Yousif 
> Al-KhalifaCenter for African Languages ( In University of Africa) ...
> Those standards for Writing African languages in Arabic Script ... 
> thosestandards depends on some special characters ( for new sounds 
> which isnot there in Arabic ) and Special
>
>
> Uploaded ( folder 15 July ) you will find two different folders+ 
> photocopy:
>
> 1) Wolof - Fulfulde - Yoruba - Mandink - Hausa - Susu :- It contains 
> Translationsfor Al-Akhdari-Book ( which is an Islamic Basic Book - 
> Writen by AbderahamanAl-Akhdari)
> Lanaguges ( Hausa - Yoruba - Fula ( Fulfulde ) - Mandink- Susu - Wolof)
> you can find a file contains the charactor of each language... but you 
> may need to add languages to your WinWord ( windows ) so asto display 
> those files
>
> 2) Quran Part 30 :- It contains Part 30 of Quran in each language and 
> atthe end of the file you can see list of special characters used
> it is in PDF so all can use them...
>
>
> 3) About Uncodes ( 08F4 - 08FD ) A photocopy of page 168 of book 
> (ISESCOStandard signs.jpg)( Writing African Languages using Arabic 
> Characters- writen by Prof Babikir Gadrmary)
> in this page he talk about seven vowel signs standard by ISESCOand 
> those will be standard to use in african languages
> three signs ( five unicode ... as two signs can be used above orbellow 
> the letter ) of these signs are 08F4 - 08F7 - 08F8 - 08F9 - 08FA
> So I think those signs are very important as they create a soundwhich 
> is not there in standard Arabic script ( character set)
> For example the word ( you ) In Swahili ( wewe ) is written inArabic 
> script ( using ISESCO standard ) with double ( 0648 ) but with
>   08F9 under each 0648 ... to produce the sound wewe ... and 
> withoutthose signs the sound will be totally different and ( maybe ) 
> differentword
> Look at last page in Swahili.pdf in Swahili folder in Quran part30
>
> Tarik Merghani
>
>
>
>
> about Code 076A :- ( IT has no color and it was not discussed)
>
> It is used in Wolof Lnagauge ( African langauge - one of six Official 
> langauagesused in Senegal and other places in Africa)
> please see link( http://www.omniglot.com/writing/wolof.htm)
>
>
>
>
> On 7/1/2014 8:58 PM, Sarmad Hussain wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Here is relevant info and action itemsfrom our call today:
>
> 1. Tarik and Meikalto look at code points 08F4 -- 08FD and identify 
> the following (where possible)
> a. Languages in Africausing these code points (vowel signs)
> b. Those used, whetherthey are optional or required by the language 
> (e.g. Kasra vowel sign isoptional (not required) in Arabic and Urdu 
> languages)
> 2. Ahmed, Iftikharand Sarmad to document the no. on EGIDS scale for 
> each code point for furtherdiscussion during next call
> 3. Everybody: pleaseread the explanation on EGIDS scale:
> a. Read through section5.10 (second half) on page 22 of the latest 
> Overview and Rationale documentby IP available 
> athttps://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-overview-06jun14-en.pdfon 
> where they suggest putting the cut off and why
> b. Introduction tothis scale by ethnologue 
> athttp://www.ethnologue.com/about/language-status
> c. The work on IPis based on the Procedure to develop LGR for the root 
> zone. The procedureis available 
> athttps://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-lgr-procedure-20mar13-en.pdf. 
>  >From this procedure, if you read C.9 on pg. 43, the 
> conservatismprinciple suggests that if TF-AIDN wants to suggest a 
> change, IP must beconvinced and they should agree; other option is to 
> proceed withthe shorter set for LGR right now and aim to do more 
> detailed homeworkand try to include extra code points in the next 
> revisions. Thiscan be done and IP has indicated that there will be no 
> bias next time incase this is done in two steps. We decided to discuss 
> options afterthe final analysis of code points in the next call
> 4. Regarding the missingcharacters reported by Tarik for some 
> languages in Africa, to add thesein Unicode TF-AIDN or any other 
> organization would need to develop a proposalfor Unicode consortium, 
> e.g. seehttp://www.cle.org.pk/Publication/papers/2006/n3117.pdf.
> 5. Everybody: pleasefinally review the information in the attached 
> document and let us knowif there are any additions/changes. Those who 
> have names in frontof the code points, either confirm the language or 
> delete the entry forthat code point, and remove your name (and send 
> the revised version tothe list.
>
> We will finalize the characters to be includedin the LGR in the next 
> call in two weeks.
>
> Regards,
> Sarmad
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TF-AIDN mailing list
> TF-AIDN at meswg.org <mailto:TF-AIDN at meswg.org>
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
>
>
> ----- Message from Meikal Mumin<meikal.mumin at uni-koeln.de 
> <mailto:meikal.mumin at uni-koeln.de>> on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 18:23:05+0200 
> -----
>
> *To:*
>
> 	
>
> Ahmed Bakhat Masood<ahmedbakhat at pta.gov.pk 
> <mailto:ahmedbakhat at pta.gov.pk>>
>
> *cc:*
>
> 	
>
> TF-AIDN<tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org>>
>
> *Subject:*
>
> 	
>
> Re: [TF-AIDN] TF-AIDN Digest, Vol10, Issue 1
>
>
> This is the principal resource, where languages are listedwith their 
> evaluation according toEGDIS:
> http://www.ethnologue.com/ <http://www.ethnologue.com/>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 5:58 PM, Ahmed Bakhat 
> Masood<ahmedbakhat at pta.gov.pk <mailto:ahmedbakhat at pta.gov.pk>> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Reference trailing follow up mail of teleconference dated 01-07-2014.
> I am attaching Code point document w.r.t EGIDS scale, which has been 
> preparedby Dr. Sarmad, Iftikhar and me for the discussion of the group 
> as per detailbelow:
>
> 1. EGIDS language scale 1-4highlightedas*"**green**"*
> 2. EGIDS language scale 5 and abovehighlighted as*"**Orange**"*
> 3. Optional code points in relevant languagehighlighted as"Blue"
> 4. Code pint need discussion of the group***not highlighted or white*
>
> Almost all the possible languages have been covered which has their 
> relevantEGIDS scale at ethnologue website, however some of the 
> languages like"ANT" were not found in the scale but I remember Meikal 
> was explaining that itis group of some languages, so after discussion 
> with him we can updatedocument w.r.t EGIDS.
>
> Furthermore most of the code points are falling in 1-4 EGIDS scale 
> dueto relevant languages like Arabic, Persian, Urdu, Hausa, Uyghur and 
> Fulfuldehowever some of the languages are falling in 5, 6a and 6b 
> scale (highlightedas*Orange*), for which we have to give valid reasons 
> to be countedin the LGR or we have to find some other languages which 
> are using samecode point and has better EGIDS scale. So we can discuss 
> all possibilitiesin the coming conference call.
>
>
> Best Regards,*
> **
> **Ahmed Bakht Masood*
> Deputy Director (ICT/Network),
> Pakistan Telecom Authority,
> Headquarters F-5/1, Islamabad, Pakistan
> Phone (O):0092-51-9225361 <tel:0092-51-9225361>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: tf-aidn-request at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-request at meswg.org>
> To: tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org>,
> Date: 07/02/2014 07:54 AM
> Subject: TF-AIDNDigest, Vol 10, Issue 1
> Sent by: tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Send TF-AIDN mailing list submissions to
> tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> tf-aidn-request at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-request at meswg.org>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> tf-aidn-owner at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-owner at meswg.org>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than"Re: Contents of TF-AIDN digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Follow up on call on 1 Jul 14 (Sarmad Hussain)
>
>
> ----- Message from"Sarmad Hussain" <sarmad.hussain at kics.edu.pk 
> <mailto:sarmad.hussain at kics.edu.pk>> on Tue, 1 Jul 2014 22:58:03+0500 
> -----
>
> *To:*
>
> 	
>
> "'TF-AIDN'" <tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org>>
>
> *Subject:*
>
> 	
>
> [TF-AIDN] Follow up on call on 1Jul 14
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> Here is relevant info and action items from our call today:
>
> 1. Tarik and Meikal to look at code points 08F4-- 08FD and identify 
> the following (where possible)
> a. Languages in Africa using these code points (vowelsigns)
> b. Those used, whether they are optional or requiredby the language 
> (e.g. Kasra vowel sign is optional (not required) in Arabicand Urdu 
> languages)
> 2. Ahmed, Iftikhar and Sarmad to document the no. on EGIDS scale for 
> each code point for further discussion during next call
> 3. Everybody: please read the explanation on EGIDSscale:
> a. Read through section 5.10 (second half) on page22 of the latest 
> Overview and Rationale document by IP available 
> athttps://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-overview-06jun14-en.pdfon 
> where they suggest putting the cut off and why
> b. Introduction to this scale by ethnologue 
> athttp://www.ethnologue.com/about/language-status
> c. The work on IP is based on the Procedure to developLGR for the root 
> zone. The procedure is available 
> athttps://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-lgr-procedure-20mar13-en.pdf. 
>  >From this procedure, if you read C.9 on pg. 43, the 
> conservatismprinciple suggests that if TF-AIDN wants to suggest a 
> change, IP must beconvinced and they should agree; other option is to 
> proceed withthe shorter set for LGR right now and aim to do more 
> detailed homeworkand try to include extra code points in the next 
> revisions. Thiscan be done and IP has indicated that there will be no 
> bias next time incase this is done in two steps. We decided to discuss 
> options afterthe final analysis of code points in the next call
> 4. Regarding the missing characters reported by Tarikfor some 
> languages in Africa, to add these in Unicode TF-AIDN or any 
> otherorganization would need to develop a proposal for Unicode 
> consortium, e.g. 
> seehttp://www.cle.org.pk/Publication/papers/2006/n3117.pdf.
> 5. Everybody: please finally review the informationin the attached 
> document and let us know if there are any additions/changes. Those who 
> have names in front of the code points, either confirmthe language or 
> delete the entry for that code point, and remove your name(and send 
> the revised version to the list.
>
> We will finalize the characters to be included in the LGR in the next 
> callin two weeks.
>
> Regards,
> Sarmad
>  [attachment"Code Point Level Analysis for LGR 0.2.docx" deleted by 
> Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK] 
> _______________________________________________
> TF-AIDN mailing list_
> _TF-AIDN at meswg.org <mailto:TF-AIDN at meswg.org>_
> _http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TF-AIDN mailing list_
> _TF-AIDN at meswg.org <mailto:TF-AIDN at meswg.org>_
> _http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
>
> _______________________________________________
> TF-AIDN mailing list
> TF-AIDN at meswg.org <mailto:TF-AIDN at meswg.org>
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
>
>
>
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> TF-AIDN mailing list
> TF-AIDN at meswg.org
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn

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