[TF-AIDN] Conf. Call on 2 Sept 14
Meikal Mumin
meikal.mumin at uni-koeln.de
Wed Sep 17 12:31:54 CEST 2014
Dear Saramad,
Dear Colleagues,
sorry for my recent silence. I was on travels and have since been trying to
catch up with work.
I will get back to the points 2c,d seperately, but as for point 3) the
working group let by Inam - Yes I can volunteer, but be aware that I will
have less time available in the coming months.
Best,
Meikal
2014-09-15 5:51 GMT+02:00 Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain at icann.org>:
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> A gentle reminder on these action items. Kindly send in your responses
> within this week.
>
>
>
> We do need volunteers for the working group to do variants. I will work
> with Inam to get things started in the meantime.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Sarmad
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Sarmad Hussain
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 02, 2014 10:00 PM
> *To:* tf-aidn at meswg.org
> *Subject:* Conf. Call on 2 Sept 14
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Thanks Ahmed for all the work in putting the documents together.
>
>
>
> We reviewed the two documents during the call.
>
>
>
> 1. There were no comments on the document which lists characters to
> be included in the LGR proposal, suggesting that we are putting these code
> points in the LGR proposal.
>
>
>
> 2. For the second document with deferred code points, the following
> comments were made:
>
>
>
> a) Saraiki characters should be included as there is sufficient
> evidence provided for active use of the writing system for this language by
> Iftikhar – see his email which lists TV channels, daily newspapers, univ.
> based graduate programs, etc. published for this language
>
> b) Other characters were discussed which have a value of 5 on the
> EGIDS scale. Inam will provide feedback for these characters being used in
> Pakistan
>
> c) ANT and DPNL characters (in light green) need to be confirmed.
> Meikal is requested to verify them
>
> d) Should any other code points be included?
>
>
>
> 3. Finally, we will be starting a Work Party for doing the variant
> analysis for the code points shortlisted for the LGR proposal. Inam had
> agreed to lead the work. However, we are seeking volunteers to help in the
> discussion. Please let us know if you are interested to participate.
>
>
>
> Please share any feedback or comments.
>
>
>
> Those on the call, please feel free to add any details not captured in the
> email.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Sarmad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org [mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org
> <tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org>] *On Behalf Of *Ahmed Bakhat Masood
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 02, 2014 12:09 PM
> *To:* tf-aidn at meswg.org
> *Subject:* [TF-AIDN] Fw: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 9
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> Reference trailing mail and TF-AIDN conference call, updated code point
> documents version 0.5 are attached for discussion to finalize the document,
> by the group.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> *Ahmed Bakht Masood*
> Deputy Director (ICT/Network),
> Pakistan Telecom Authority,
> Headquarters F-5/1, Islamabad, Pakistan
> Phone (O): 0092-51-9225361
>
>
> ----- Forwarded by Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK on 09/02/2014 12:14 PM
> -----
>
> From: Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK
> To: tf-aidn at meswg.org,
> Date: 08/03/2014 11:16 PM
> Subject: Re: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 9
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> Reference trailing mails regarding finalization of code points for LGR,
> Updated Code point document w.r.t EGID Scale in MS Word and status of
> languages in MS Excel, for the discussion of the group as per detail below:
>
> 1. EGID language scale 1-4
> highlighted as "green"
> 2. EGID language scale 5 and above
> highlighted as "Orange"
> 3. Optional or vowel code points in relevant language
> highlighted as "Blue"
> 4. Code point for which information has yet not received by any
> member not highlighted or white
>
> Relevant individuals have also been requested to updated Information
> regarding their corresponding language.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> *Ahmed Bakht Masood*
> Deputy Director (ICT/Network),
> Pakistan Telecom Authority,
> Headquarters F-5/1, Islamabad, Pakistan
> Phone (O): 0092-51-9225361
>
>
> [attachment "Languages Status on EGIDS scale.xlsx" deleted by Ahmed Bakhat
> Masood/ICT/PTA/PK] [attachment "Code Point Level Analysis for EGIDS
> 0.4.docx" deleted by Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK]
>
>
> From: tf-aidn-request at meswg.org
> To: tf-aidn at meswg.org,
> Date: 07/15/2014 09:19 PM
> Subject: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 9
> Sent by: tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Send TF-AIDN mailing list submissions to
> tf-aidn at meswg.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> tf-aidn-request at meswg.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> tf-aidn-owner at meswg.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of TF-AIDN digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Follow up on call on 1 Jul 14 (Tarik Merghani)
> 2. Re: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 (Meikal Mumin)
>
>
> ----- Message from Tarik Merghani <tarik at isoc.sd> on Tue, 15 Jul 2014
> 18:47:24 +0300 -----
>
> *To:*
>
> Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain at kics.edu.pk>, 'TF-AIDN' <tf-aidn at meswg.org>
>
> *Subject:*
>
> Re: [TF-AIDN] Follow up on call on 1 Jul 14
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> Sorry to be late in sending this email ... but I just arrived from Abuja
> ( Nigeria ) ..
>
> Here are the standards created by the Islamic Educational, Scientific and Cultural
> Organization ( ISESCO ) ... with collaboration with UNESCO and with
> support from Bank Of Jaddah ( Saudi Arabia ) and Yousif Al-Khalifa Center
> for African Languages ( In University of Africa ) ...
> Those standards for Writing African languages in Arabic Script ... those standards
> depends on some special characters ( for new sounds which is not there in
> Arabic ) and Special
>
>
> Uploaded ( folder 15 July ) you will find two different folders +
> photocopy :
>
> 1) Wolof - Fulfulde - Yoruba - Mandink - Hausa - Susu :- It contains
> Translations for Al-Akhdari-Book ( which is an Islamic Basic Book -
> Writen by Abderahaman Al-Akhdari )
> Lanaguges ( Hausa - Yoruba - Fula ( Fulfulde ) - Mandink - Susu - Wolof
> )
> you can find a file contains the charactor of each language ... but
> you may need to add languages to your WinWord ( windows ) so as to
> display those files
>
> 2) Quran Part 30 :- It contains Part 30 of Quran in each language and at the
> end of the file you can see list of special characters used
> it is in PDF so all can use them ...
>
>
> 3) About Uncodes ( 08F4 - 08FD ) A photocopy of page 168 of book (ISESCO Standard
> signs.jpg)( Writing African Languages using Arabic Characters - writen by
> Prof Babikir Gadrmary )
> in this page he talk about seven vowel signs standard by ISESCO and
> those will be standard to use in african languages
> three signs ( five unicode ... as two signs can be used above or bellow
> the letter ) of these signs are 08F4 - 08F7 - 08F8 - 08F9 - 08FA
> So I think those signs are very important as they create a sound which
> is not there in standard Arabic script ( character set )
> For example the word ( you ) In Swahili ( wewe ) is written in Arabic
> script ( using ISESCO standard ) with double ( 0648 ) but with
> 08F9 under each 0648 ... to produce the sound wewe ... and without those
> signs the sound will be totally different and ( maybe ) different word
> Look at last page in Swahili.pdf in Swahili folder in Quran part 30
>
> Tarik Merghani
>
>
>
>
> about Code 076A :- ( IT has no color and it was not discussed )
>
> It is used in Wolof Lnagauge ( African langauge - one of six Official
> langauages used in Senegal and other places in Africa )
> please see link ( http://www.omniglot.com/writing/wolof.htm )
>
>
>
>
> On 7/1/2014 8:58 PM, Sarmad Hussain wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Here is relevant info and action items from our call today:
>
> 1. Tarik and Meikal to look at code points 08F4 – 08FD and identify
> the following (where possible)
> a. Languages in Africa using these code points (vowel signs)
> b. Those used, whether they are optional or required by the language
> (e.g. Kasra vowel sign is optional (not required) in Arabic and Urdu
> languages)
> 2. Ahmed, Iftikhar and Sarmad to document the no. on EGIDS scale
> for each code point for further discussion during next call
> 3. Everybody: please read the explanation on EGIDS scale:
> a. Read through section 5.10 (second half) on page 22 of the latest
> Overview and Rationale document by IP available at
> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-overview-06jun14-en.pdf on
> where they suggest putting the cut off and why
> b. Introduction to this scale by ethnologue at
> http://www.ethnologue.com/about/language-status
> c. The work on IP is based on the Procedure to develop LGR for the
> root zone. The procedure is available at
> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-lgr-procedure-20mar13-en.pdf.
> >From this procedure, if you read C.9 on pg. 43, the conservatism principle
> suggests that if TF-AIDN wants to suggest a change, IP must be convinced
> and they should agree; other option is to proceed with the shorter set
> for LGR right now and aim to do more detailed homework and try to include
> extra code points in the next revisions. This can be done and IP has
> indicated that there will be no bias next time in case this is done in
> two steps. We decided to discuss options after the final analysis of
> code points in the next call
> 4. Regarding the missing characters reported by Tarik for some
> languages in Africa, to add these in Unicode TF-AIDN or any other
> organization would need to develop a proposal for Unicode consortium,
> e.g. see http://www.cle.org.pk/Publication/papers/2006/n3117.pdf.
> 5. Everybody: please finally review the information in the attached
> document and let us know if there are any additions/changes. Those who
> have names in front of the code points, either confirm the language or
> delete the entry for that code point, and remove your name (and send the
> revised version to the list.
>
> We will finalize the characters to be included in the LGR in the next
> call in two weeks.
>
> Regards,
> Sarmad
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TF-AIDN mailing list
> TF-AIDN at meswg.org
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
>
>
> ----- Message from Meikal Mumin <meikal.mumin at uni-koeln.de> on Tue, 15 Jul
> 2014 18:23:05 +0200 -----
>
> *To:*
>
> Ahmed Bakhat Masood <ahmedbakhat at pta.gov.pk>
>
> *cc:*
>
> TF-AIDN <tf-aidn at meswg.org>
>
> *Subject:*
>
> Re: [TF-AIDN] TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
>
>
> This is the principal resource, where languages are listed with their
> evaluation according to EGDIS:
> http://www.ethnologue.com/
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 5:58 PM, Ahmed Bakhat Masood <
> ahmedbakhat at pta.gov.pk> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Reference trailing follow up mail of teleconference dated 01-07-2014.
> I am attaching Code point document w.r.t EGIDS scale, which has been
> prepared by Dr. Sarmad, Iftikhar and me for the discussion of the group
> as per detail below:
>
> 1. EGIDS language scale 1-4 highlighted as
> *"**green**"*
> 2. EGIDS language scale 5 and above highlighted as
> *"**Orange**"*
> 3. Optional code points in relevant language highlighted as
> "Blue"
> 4. Code pint need discussion of the group *not
> highlighted or white*
>
> Almost all the possible languages have been covered which has their
> relevant EGIDS scale at ethnologue website, however some of the languages
> like "ANT" were not found in the scale but I remember Meikal was
> explaining that it is group of some languages, so after discussion with
> him we can update document w.r.t EGIDS.
>
> Furthermore most of the code points are falling in 1-4 EGIDS scale due to
> relevant languages like Arabic, Persian, Urdu, Hausa, Uyghur and Fulfulde however
> some of the languages are falling in 5, 6a and 6b scale (highlighted as
> *Orange*), for which we have to give valid reasons to be counted in the
> LGR or we have to find some other languages which are using same code
> point and has better EGIDS scale. So we can discuss all possibilities in
> the coming conference call.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> *Ahmed Bakht Masood*
> Deputy Director (ICT/Network),
> Pakistan Telecom Authority,
> Headquarters F-5/1, Islamabad, Pakistan
> Phone (O): 0092-51-9225361
>
>
>
>
>
> From: tf-aidn-request at meswg.org
> To: tf-aidn at meswg.org,
> Date: 07/02/2014 07:54 AM
> Subject: TF-AIDN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
> Sent by: tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Send TF-AIDN mailing list submissions to
> tf-aidn at meswg.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> tf-aidn-request at meswg.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> tf-aidn-owner at meswg.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of TF-AIDN digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Follow up on call on 1 Jul 14 (Sarmad Hussain)
>
>
> ----- Message from "Sarmad Hussain" <sarmad.hussain at kics.edu.pk> on Tue,
> 1 Jul 2014 22:58:03 +0500 -----
>
> *To:*
>
> "'TF-AIDN'" <tf-aidn at meswg.org>
>
> *Subject:*
>
> [TF-AIDN] Follow up on call on 1 Jul 14
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> Here is relevant info and action items from our call today:
>
> 1. Tarik and Meikal to look at code points 08F4 – 08FD and identify
> the following (where possible)
> a. Languages in Africa using these code points (vowel signs)
> b. Those used, whether they are optional or required by the language
> (e.g. Kasra vowel sign is optional (not required) in Arabic and Urdu
> languages)
> 2. Ahmed, Iftikhar and Sarmad to document the no. on EGIDS scale
> for each code point for further discussion during next call
> 3. Everybody: please read the explanation on EGIDS scale:
> a. Read through section 5.10 (second half) on page 22 of the latest
> Overview and Rationale document by IP available at
> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/msr-overview-06jun14-en.pdf on
> where they suggest putting the cut off and why
> b. Introduction to this scale by ethnologue at
> http://www.ethnologue.com/about/language-status
> c. The work on IP is based on the Procedure to develop LGR for the
> root zone. The procedure is available at
> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-lgr-procedure-20mar13-en.pdf.
> >From this procedure, if you read C.9 on pg. 43, the conservatism principle
> suggests that if TF-AIDN wants to suggest a change, IP must be convinced
> and they should agree; other option is to proceed with the shorter set
> for LGR right now and aim to do more detailed homework and try to include
> extra code points in the next revisions. This can be done and IP has
> indicated that there will be no bias next time in case this is done in
> two steps. We decided to discuss options after the final analysis of
> code points in the next call
> 4. Regarding the missing characters reported by Tarik for some
> languages in Africa, to add these in Unicode TF-AIDN or any other organization
> would need to develop a proposal for Unicode consortium, e.g. see
> http://www.cle.org.pk/Publication/papers/2006/n3117.pdf.
> 5. Everybody: please finally review the information in the attached
> document and let us know if there are any additions/changes. Those who
> have names in front of the code points, either confirm the language or
> delete the entry for that code point, and remove your name (and send the
> revised version to the list.
>
> We will finalize the characters to be included in the LGR in the next call in
> two weeks.
>
> Regards,
> Sarmad
> [attachment "Code Point Level Analysis for LGR 0.2.docx" deleted by
> Ahmed Bakhat Masood/ICT/PTA/PK]
> _______________________________________________
> TF-AIDN mailing list
> TF-AIDN at meswg.org
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TF-AIDN mailing list
> TF-AIDN at meswg.org
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
>
> _______________________________________________
> TF-AIDN mailing list
> TF-AIDN at meswg.org
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
>
> _______________________________________________
> TF-AIDN mailing list
> TF-AIDN at meswg.org
> http://lists.meswg.org/mailman/listinfo/tf-aidn
>
>
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