[TF-AIDN] Variant principles
Sarmad Hussain
sarmad.hussain at icann.org
Wed Sep 7 14:25:44 CEST 2016
Hi Abdalmonem,
It was just Ahmed and me on the UASG call so we agreed to postpone it till later. Fahd is requested to reschedule it.
Regards,
Sarmad
From: Abdalmonem Tharwat Galila [mailto:agalila at mcit.gov.eg]
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 7:21 AM
To: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain at icann.org>; TF-AIDN Mailinglist <tf-aidn at meswg.org>
Subject: RE: [TF-AIDN] Variant principles
Sorry I was out-off-power so I miss the last words of today's meeting ?
I connected to UA meeting, but no one there !!! any idea ?
Thnx
All the Best,
Abdalmonem Tharwat Galila
Deputy Manager, Dot Masr Registry,
Operation Sector.
National Telecommunication Regulatory Authority
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From: tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org> [mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org] On Behalf Of Sarmad Hussain
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 5:14 AM
To: TF-AIDN Mailinglist
Subject: Re: [TF-AIDN] Variant principles
Thank you Meikal.
While discussing the principles, a fundamental decision we face is whether we do language or script level variant analysis for language based tables.
As a summary of our previous call, for those who could not join, here are the salient points:
1. We started with Root Zone LGR principles for Arabic script
2. The first principle, which says that two code points with identical shape in any one position will be considered a variant, was agreed for inclusion.
3. The second principle initially said that two code points were variants if they are considered stylistic variation (e.g. 0643 ك and 06AA ڪ) by the script community. It was discussed whether the principle should be changed so that the code points are variants if they are considered stylistic variation by the relevant language community as we are now considering language tables. It was argued that even if the label is generated by the language table, it could be viewed by the script community and thus possibly cause phishing. However, the target audience of language level tables is generally the community which is proficient in the relevant language. The members generally though that the language level definition was more appropriate in the language level LGRs, however, further discussion was needed to finalize the scope of the principle.
4. For the next principle which considers two code points which are not stylistic variations but are still considered variants for a language (e.g. 0627 ا and 0623 أ). The discussion continued on whether this should be limited to language level analysis or should a script level analysis be incorporated.
5. Based on the discussion, it was suggested (by Meikal) that it may be useful to look at it slightly differently, as core vs. non-core variants (see his email below).
We will continue the discussion in our call scheduled soon.
Regards,
Sarmad
From: tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org> [mailto:tf-aidn-bounces at meswg.org] On Behalf Of Meikal Mumin
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:34 AM
To: TF-AIDN Mailinglist <tf-aidn at meswg.org <mailto:tf-aidn at meswg.org> >
Subject: [TF-AIDN] Variant principles
Dear colleagues,
during our discussion today we spoke about variant principles, and wether we should keep or drop some of the principles used at the root zone. During our discussion we were saying that, since we are developing language tables, we should not be overly conservative, and try to apply language level variants, and not script level variants, where possible.
However we arrived at a point where we were discussing the third principle form our original Root Zone proposal of section 2.3:
The following principles for defining variants were agreed upon by the members of GP:
1. Two code points are variants if they are visually identical in any one of the four positions/forms (isolated, initial, medial or final form).
2. Two code points are variants if they are visually similar and if at least a sub-set of the Arabic script-using community employs those two code-points as stylistic variations of one another within the calligraphic tradition.
3. Two code points are variants if they are visually similar to the degree that at least a sub-set of the Arabic script using community may consider the two as stylistic variations of each other, even where such consideration is not part of the established calligraphic tradition.
4. Two code points are variants if they only differ in their dot orientation, i.e. where those dots, which are used as part of the letter, are rotated but their count and placement (above or below) does not change. Dot orientation is used in calligraphic tradition to fit dots in tighter spaces.
5. Code points representing the same letter in Western (African) Arabic orthography and Conventional Arabic orthography are considered variants, as Arabic script readers from the two orthographic traditions may confuse such letters. The two sets are given below.
6. Variant sets are symmetric (if A is a variant of B, then vice versa is also true) and transitive (if A is a variant of B and B is a variant of C, then A is also a variant of C).
As examples for point three we were using the cases of waw and waw hamza. I think all users of Arabic script are familiar with waw, hamza, and the combination of the two and would recognize those as variants.
However there are also other types of variants, which are probably not known to all users, such as 06D2 (Urdus yeh barree) as a variant of ya'.
So I was trying to point out that if we talk about language tables, we need to take into consideration the development of Arabic script. There are variants all users are familiar with, since they occur at the core or the basis of the script, which is certainly Fusha or Classical Arabic and the writing of the Qur'an.
However there are variants which are less global to the script zone and which are established more in single or few languages. I think we can treat these variations as local and should not over-apply them to other language tables.
So when we are dealing not with the entire script community as one, as in the case of the root zone, I think distinguishing script variants from language variants is not sufficient, but we need to distinguish rather between core variants and non-core variants. Core variants should be considered for all language tables, while non-core variants need to be considered only for those language tables where they occur.
I hope this is understandable, since I came up with this distinction ad hoc.
Best wishes,
Meikal
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